Curse

Naqser · Jun 20, 2006, 06:44 PM // 18:44

I got a pretty good damage build, it's mainly blood, it might need a few tweaks to fit in PvP

You need to be main Necro (Of course)
I'm Ele as sedondary which helps alot with energy management

Have maximum on blood

Awaken Blood
Demonic Flesh
Unholy Feast
Shadow Strike or Lifebane Strike
Vampiric Gaze
Life Transfer
Res Signet
"lesser signet of energy" (can be other skills)

Armor would preferably be the one with the highest armor, don't remember it's name.

Scar should be the one with blood magic +1, don't remember which one either

Runes should be

Rune Of Major Blood Magic
Rune Of _____ Soul Reaping
Rune Of Major Vigor

Weapons should either give more hp and/or give a chance to give 1+ for blood magic

Currently I have a minor Soul reaping rune to prevent to much HP loss

Need a team of 8 to test it out, maybe 4 or 5 who use this build then a monk or 2 and maybe a nuker

Tactic

Before a fight: Awaken Blood
Demonic Flesh
Target different enemies and use Life transfer

In fight: Run around monk(s) and spike unholy feast then finish of with vampiric gaze

Result: Awaken Blood maxes out your blood magic to 18
Demonic Flesh gives you a big health boost

4 or 5 enemies with 9 Hp degen takes you to max hp and enemy monks start healing like crazy

When around the enemy monks and they get spiked with Unholy feast, 4 other enemies in an area around you will loose 76 hp and that amount will be transfered to you, that is alot of Hp brought back to you and your 3 4 friends, and alot of damage to enemy

with one player and five enemies around it's 5*76 = 380 actaul damage

with 4 5 player with 5 enemies around it's 380*4 = 1520 actaul damage and 350*5 = 1900 actaul damage

That's the total damage on all players

Damage done on one player is 4*76 = 304 and 5*76 = 380

and that is after the first spike and at many targets around the spikers, and that amount of hp brought back to you and your allies

after that it's just to cast Vampiric gaze and Shadow Strike

then spike again with Unholy Feast to possibly kill those who were not healed or bring them even further down

Need to discuss the amount of Unholy necros and what the rest of the team should be.

I call it "Deal and Steal" build

What do you think? Anyone wanna test it with me?

Pick Me · Jun 20, 2006, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Sorry man, but your theory has too many flaws.

Demonic Flesh - recharge time 60 seconds
Life Transfer (e) - recharge time 30 seconds, cast time 2 seconds, cost 10
Unholy Feast - cost 15, recharge time 30
Shadow Strike - cost 10, cast time 2, recharge 8

You must stop to cast your spell, warriors can hit you and knock you down or cause some severe damage to you (crippling, bleeding)

You cannot spam Life Transfer, so you suck 1 person's health, too bad there are so many remove hex spells its gone before you gain the benefits. Unholy Feast has a long recharge time too, so the health you get won't benefit you for long.

You can manage only 1 spell with glyph of lesser energy, but eventually you'll run out. Soul Reaping won't help you if no one dies.

Mesmers will slap you with Backfire, you're toast. Necros will remove Demonic Flesh from you or at least Awaken the Blood. Soul Leech will suck away your life much faster than you can get back. Spiteful Spirit will hurt you and allies around you if you're not careful. Getting too close to the enemies will invite some unwanted attention. Spike damage will crush you (as you can't gain enough health before you get spiked).

You have no movement skills, so you can't outrun a warrior or ranger.

Its a nice try in a theory, but spam life siphon instead and use Tainted Flesh or Parasitic Bond (cover hex).

Also, without energy management skills, you won't really be able to cast many spells.

Sorry, I didn't mean to bash your idea. In theory its nice, but in practicality, it doesn't work.

Naqser · Jun 20, 2006, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Unholy Feast - Recharge 20

I know you can't spam it, but will 2 or 3 monks have the time to remove all of them before the group of 4 or 5 necros come in?

As said, Lesser Glyph of energy can be used as something else

Atlest with Unholy Feast you can manage to get a positive gain if you have backfire on you

This build requires attention, enemies to get close. Besides, your own monks can heal you and remove hexes. with about 700 hp and 70 armor, even though one gets extra damage from holy damage, you will last a while, with your monks there too.

The glyph could be changed for a slow down enemy spell

Hm... Life Siphon would be the best, it's a blood magic, the longer the better, even though it's only a cover spell one can benefit from it as long as it's active. But then again, parasitic bond gives you hp when it ends, does that include being removed?

One necro could be changed to have BiP as it is a ranged elite spell I belive, only for 10 seconds though but the energy gain is much and it has no recharge time, skilled enough you can BiP all necros before the first BiP you cast is down. Low Hp required for low sacrifice, and Blood Renewal, but that requires the BiP necro to be close to the other necros, not that low hp maybe, but he could stay behind cover as long as possible and monks are there to heal, it gets alot to heal.

No problem about bashing it, I said it needs changes

Pick Me · Jun 21, 2006, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Hmmm...

Okay, I didn't know what your party was built on, nor the enemy, so I just figured that when you said 1 vs 5 (you being the 1) that was the scenario you were going for.

Anyway, Parasitic Bond does give you health when it ends (even if its removed).

Unholy Feast will give you positive health if backfire is on you, but a signet of devotion can heal all that health back that you stole in less time than it takes you to recharge Unholy Feast.

If you take out Glyph of Lesser Energy, you lose more energy management.

You might be better off with Soul Leach (e), as everytime a monk casts a spell, life is taken off caster and given to you.

I hear the some monks carry CoP, if so, bring Descrate Enchantment. This will alert you to how many enchantments are carried on that Monk. The more enchantments, the more healing and hex & conditions are removed from the monk when the Monk uses CoP (skill, so no spellcasts are triggered).

Monks have fast ways of removing hexes, (Holy Veil, CoP, Remove Hex, Smite Hex) each are quicker to recharge than Unholy Feast. Holy Viel is an enchantment and can remove a hex extremely easily. It also delays your casting time too (makes you cast slower).

Mesmers are good vs CoP. Phantom Pain will cause health degen of 1 to 3. Once this is finished or removed, it inflicts Deep Wounds. So if someone uses CoP to remove a hex (like Life Siphon, or Soul Leech or SS), they must first remove PP. If you use PB (parasitic bond) too, then they must remove 3 hexes. That means 3 enchantments also must be removed. Once done, you have inflicted Deep Wounds and gained health (from PB).

Most people won't care about Life Siphon, shadow strike or vampiric gaze. Healing Signet can out heal the damage done by either one.

Even Orison of Healing (with divine favor) can be cast to wipeout such damage.

You don't need BiP, BR is good enough for energy management (have 2 necs have it, so everyone can gain energy quickly).

Naqser · Jun 21, 2006, 04:40 PM // 16:40

It was more like 5 v 5 but i guess you figured that out

Signet of devotion can't heal 304 and even less 360 damage just like that, and to have 5 or atleast 4 or 3 to heal that lost 304 or 360 damage

I'm not familiar with monks if they have some attribute raising skill but if they have 16 in divine favour they heal 106 with a recharge time of 5, with 18 they heal 117. Minimum number of monks are 2 and to heal a spike of unholy feast they would have to use it 3 times, but as they most certainly are healing monks they have other healing spells

So we don't take Glyph od lesser energy away then

yeah, that would be logical, and fun to watch

hm, so by bringing Desecrate Enchantment, you could remove Shadow Strike/Lifebane Stike

Unholy Feast is no hex, it's instant damage so holy veil and other hex removers won't matter

hm, your right, maybe one could concentrate on killing the monks, trading vampiric gaze for Mark of Subversion would work well against the monks?

That would maximise the damage done, but have to trade a skills for it then, maybe some have Mark of Subversion and 2 have BR?

jummeth · Jun 21, 2006, 04:59 PM // 16:59

Demonic + AtB -.- .... would you like to lose half your life?

Lesser energy is a crap energy management. Use the mesmer ones and they actually can help your fight. Drain enchant =O drains other enchant, inspired hex =O hex removal.

LTransfer is a poor elite. 10 degen is easily created by better means. Life Siphon in comparison is more useful, since it lasts 2.5 times it's length and recharges much quicker.

The purpose of degen is to spread it to as many people as possible, and maintain roughly 6-7 degen on about 5-6 people. It is this that will overload the monks. It is very unlikely that you can ever degen anybody to death, unless something has gone horribly wrong like the monk is dead or shutdown.

Pick Me · Jun 21, 2006, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Okay, let me see if I can explain myself a bit better.

Unholy Feast at level 15, steal 54 health from 1 - 3 foes. So at lets say 18th level, you can steal about 60 or so life? Lets say 70 for arguement sake. 70 health, recharge time 20 seconds, thats 70 damage per person. Signet of Devotion will heal at level 13, 82 life (I think or 84). recharge time 5 seconds, cast time 2 seconds. So over 21 seconds, 3 people are healed from unholy feast's attack.

Mark of Subversion is a hex, thus subject to Holy Veil's removal.

The funny thing about the monk is 1 cast of divine healing (recharge time of 30 seconds) is that it can heal nearby party members of 210 + divine favor + divine boon (we are talking about 500+ health in 1 shot to each member). Of ourse no one uses divine boon as a healer nor brings divine healing.

So at least you don't worry about that.

Demonic Flesh + Aura of the Lich (e) would drop your health by 50% of max. So DF first will boost your health by x, then AotL will drop your total by 50%. However, if you first do AotL, then DF, you will sac less and gain more life.

If you are a N/E you don't have access to a N/Me, so scrap the character? Granted Glphys in general suck as energy management, that is why I said get two necros having Blood Ritual.

Inspire hex removes 1 hex for 20 seconds.

Rangers may have Melandru's Resilience, which will kill you. Why? Every hex and condition gives the ranger +2 to health regen. life siphon will cause -3 health regen (or +3 health degen) so the ranger losses 1 pip, but if some one puts crippling on, the ranger has +1 health regen.

Good monks can protect a party and have little energy issues. If you all go after 1 monk, some people will go after you. Disrupt, bleeding, and deep wounds. You have no way to remove conditions, so your monk will be trying to remove conditions from you (5 or 2 second recharge) which will start to drain on their energy (especially if their necro has Virulence).

Oh yes, watchout for certain mesmers, they like to blackout and steal spells. If you pose too much of a threat, a mesmer will stop you dead, and the rest will kill you (ganged up by warrior or barraging rangers).

Spamming life siphon is good, but energy intensive.

Naqser · Jun 21, 2006, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Unholy feast at lvl 18 does 76 damage to 5 person around one self

that is my damage calculation on the first post

Demonic + AtB

Actually Awaken the Blood first and the Demonic Flesh, and with maximum HP when you use it you end up with more hp, so it kind of "heals" you.

Wait, when did we talk about AotL? But sounds like a good idea

I didn't say that the necros had to be Eles as secondary, only that I'm ele as secondary, I'm used to it since 10 months back so I know how to use it. Other secondary proffesions can be used.

Whats the usual hp of a PvP monk?

To remove conditions, plauge send would be beneficial. or whatever it was called, send one condition and it's remainig time to target foe and adjacent foes.

Aren't all these problem brought up here in the other builds too?

Pick Me · Jun 21, 2006, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naqser

Unholy feast at lvl 18 does 76 damage to 5 person around one self

that is my damage calculation on the first post

Demonic + AtB

Actually Awaken the Blood first and the Demonic Flesh, and with maximum HP when you use it you end up with more hp, so it kind of "heals" you.

Wait, when did we talk about AotL? But sounds like a good idea

I didn't say that the necros had to be Eles as secondary, only that I'm ele as secondary, I'm used to it since 10 months back so I know how to use it. Other secondary proffesions can be used.

Whats the usual hp of a PvP monk?

To remove conditions, plauge send would be beneficial. or whatever it was called, send one condition and it's remainig time to target foe and adjacent foes.

Aren't all these problem brought up here in the other builds too?

Oh, I thought Unholy Feast was a stated upto 3, not upto x.

It heals you upto your max life.

AotL is not a very good idea. 1) its an enchantment, thus you lose life (health degen affects you the same, conditions affect you the same, vampiric attacks affect you the same).
2) It can be shattered
3) you'll be wasting energy healing your low life.
4) its not affected by Awakening.

No one in their right mind will have a 55 monk in PvP.

Naqser · Jun 21, 2006, 09:42 PM // 21:42

that's the good about it

Well I was only interested what the avarage or usual hp of a healer in pvp is

I know 55 monks aren't used in PvP

OMFGimCUTE · Jun 22, 2006, 09:14 PM // 21:14

build wont work that well but maybe echo Unholy feast? hmmm

Naqser · Jun 22, 2006, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by OMFGimCUTE

build wont work that well but maybe echo Unholy feast? hmmm

holy, you just made my day, I completly forget some skills that would be of total use sometimes, with 2 necros having Br, energy management wouldn't be a ig problem,

so total damage with 5 persons using echo, and have 18 blood magic

1900 * 2 = 3800 actaul damage, now this would be equal to a nuke, would like to see monks heal that if they still stand

jummeth · Jun 23, 2006, 12:45 AM // 00:45

My point was that ATB + demonic == 40% sac.

Thats why pick me was talking about AotL

BR is a crap skill. At 16 blood it gives the monk 14 energy over 14 seconds. Its generally too slow, AtB + BR = 34% sac, so you automatically wasted 7 of that 15 energy already.

If you want to counter the sacs with blood skills, then Unholy's recharge and energy req is too debilitating. Try an AotL + Dark Aura + touch sac skills + dark pact etc. Low cost is your energy management.

AtB and sac skills are generally a bad idea.

EDIT: Life transfer will not kill people, Life siphon on multiple targets with wither here and there covered by para is better (all good recharge rates) or even better, drop all this blood crap and go Faint + wither + para thats your 8 degen on specific chars while you maintain -4 on many others. NB this is only 3 skills, your others can be varied.

gabrial heart · Jun 23, 2006, 06:16 PM // 18:16

I totally agree with jummeth. You don't sac with AtB on, even if you put demonic on before. Demonic is like endure, but necros aren't tanks so WTF? lol

If you taking about spamming BRitual across 2 necros, then eek!

Unholy feast is crapola. If you step outside any outpost and use unholy feast you will see the AoE, it's only good for foes right next to you, not "in the area" like it says, plus the recharge and e required is way to high.

life transfer is great if you use the mesmer side to get it to last longer, but it's not going to kill anyone. Take life siphon with wither IMO. (per jummeth's suggestion) cover with PB.

I've tried numerous times to get a touch/close range necros to work and it just doesn't work at all with sac spells. The best i had was with the vamp spells that just stole health without sacing and/or sac buffers.

Sac necros are best when they aren't taking damage, as support buffers. i.e. Battery necros, order necros or MM's, thats when dark aura comes in handy, while you in a bind and find yourself in the middle of trouble.

Hollerith · Jun 23, 2006, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Unholy Feast is 'in the area.'

Naqser · Jun 25, 2006, 06:19 PM // 18:19

The only sac spell in that build is Demonic flesh and for 2, Br

And, AtB + Demonic actually heals you, if you have 500 hp, use AtB and then Demonic, and it gives you 224 extra hp, you end up with 724 max hp and you sac that max hp, not 500 and end up with less than 500, you sac 724 and end up with more than 500.

Unholy feast is no sac spell